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Author Topic: anybody have an opinion on these frames?  (Read 5788 times)

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Offline FACTORe

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anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« on: August 29, 2007, 12:18:22 PM »

Online BillT

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 12:45:21 PM »
Turner makes a really nice bike, though since they switched the rear pivot from the chainstay (horst link) to the seatsay (damn you, Specialized), they've lost a little bit of their uniqueness.  Personally, if I were in the market, I'd take a look at a Ventana - http://www.ventanausa.com - they offer a very similar suspension design, but also give you additional options like quad bearings, custom geometry, etc

The Ventana equivalent to the Turner you posted is the El Fuego - http://www.ventanausa.com/frame_elfuego.html

Both companies are great and you probably couldn't go wrong with either, I just prefer Ventana...however, if Turner was still making Horst link bikes, I'd go with them as I feel that is a superior setup for a short-ish travel xc rig.
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Offline BeerCan

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2007, 01:36:47 PM »
Turners are great bikes.  I personally would get a flux over the nitrous. 

As for the horst vs faux bar.  I believe that is an over hyped comparison.  The wheel path of a tnt turner vs a horst turner has 1mm difference.  I had a well executed horst design (titus) and I have a tnt turner and I tell you the difference in suspension performance is minimal.  If anything I give a slight nod to the Turner.  It has been discussed ad nauseum on mtbr and other forums if you care to look.

Bushing vs bearings is another non starter.  They both work fine.  I like my bushings better because I can grease them and I personally believe that they are more suited to this application.  That fact however would never keep me from buying a bike with suspension bearings.

Turner and Ventana make great frames.  Both are worth having if you have the scratch.  I think you can get better deals with some of the other companies but you don't get the feeling of superiority that comes with a boutique frame  ;D  I lusted after an el saltamontes before I decided to go 29er.  I was going to go GF to save money before I stumbled across my turner for a steal.

One thing that people might bag on the turners for is DT penchant for using shorter stroke shocks.  My sultan has a 1.5" travel shock on a 4" bike (most use 2" travel).  This was a major concern of mine before I rode the bike.  DT feels that fox shocks perform better at a 2.5:1 ratio than they do at 2:1 ratio.  Not being a suspension expert I cannot argue with him.  I will say that mine performs flawlessly and does not have that midrange "wallow" I used to get on my titus when it was in 4" mode.

If you are really sure you want the 3"  I would look at the el fuego and the racer x in addition to the nitrous.  If you decide on a racerx let me know and I will point you to a good seller.
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Online BillT

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2007, 01:50:37 PM »
Horst vs Faux is a bit overblown, but my main issue is that if it wasn't for the whole Specialized licensing deal, Turner would still be making horst link bikes which makes you wonder deep down inside if it is the better design.  For a seatstay pivot design, I'd go with Ventana as they've been doing it forever.

Bushings vs. bearings is a toss up in my book - I've used both ('98 Truth with bushings and Santa Cruz's and Intense's with bearings) and can't really tell the difference provided they are both maintained well.  The zerk fittings that Turner provides to lube the bushings is a nice touch.

Ventana's low leverage ratios are nice, especially for bigger guys, as they lead to lower spring rates.  I really like Ventana's options for multiple travel settings and quad bearings in the main pivot...but both companies are really great.

I have a guy that runs a LBS in Montana that typically gives great prices and he's a dealer for Ventana, Turner, and Titus amongst other brands.  I can pass his information on to you if interested.
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Offline FACTORe

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2007, 01:55:28 PM »
i am a couple months away from doing anything - i just want to start gathering information now

Offline BeerCan

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 01:56:30 PM »
The major point, and this applies equally to Turner and Ventana is that they have fantastic customer support.  You can call either company and you usually get the owner answering your questions. 
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Offline FACTORe

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2007, 02:03:29 PM »
I want to test ride 29er at some point between now and decision time and see how they feel riding them.  I am a bigger guy and maybe one of those might work better.  I tried hardtails and didnt like them.  I love my santa cruz blur LT.  It is a bit heavy (frame 6.5 pounds) and a bit slack on the steering angle for a race bike.  It is a wonderful trail riding bike for sure.  I just need to see how much I am going to be racing and what will make the most sense. 

Offline Harvey

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2007, 02:04:11 PM »

You could always get one of these and not worry about all that full-suspension mumbo jumbo. ;D

Offline Harvey

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 02:06:19 PM »
I tried hardtails and didnt like them.

Did you ride an aluminum hardtail? There's no comparison between that and the ride of a well-crafted steel or ti hardtail.

Offline FACTORe

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2007, 02:07:47 PM »

You could always get one of these and not worry about all that full-suspension mumbo jumbo. ;D


what is that?

Offline Harvey

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2007, 02:09:01 PM »
That, my friend, is an IF Steel Deluxe.

Offline FACTORe

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2007, 02:13:28 PM »
what is the characteristcs of a steal vs aluminum or carbon frame?

Offline Harvey

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2007, 02:26:00 PM »
In general, steel has a much more lively and supple feel than either material. Aluminum is known for a harsh ride, but it has gotten somewhat better in recent years. Carbon has been described as having a "dead" feeling. You'd be surprised how the stays of a high-quality steel bike soaks up bumps in the rear, whereas aluminum typically feels like a jackhammer going up your arse.

Then there's fatigue life. Steel or ti will outlast aluminum or carbon many times over.

If you have the $$$$, ti is even more supple than steel, doesn't rust and is much lighter.

I'd stay far, far away from carbon if I were you.

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2007, 02:30:26 PM »
yeah - i am not looking at anything carbon - is the TI a bit lighter than the steal? 

Also - are these frames custom made to fit the purchaser?

Offline FACTORe

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Re: anybody have an opinion on these frames?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2007, 02:40:47 PM »
btw - if i were going to go hardtail

this would be the bike:


 

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