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Author Topic: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help  (Read 4134 times)

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Offline 4x4TampaTaco

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Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« on: August 08, 2009, 08:30:19 PM »
  Alright guys... started tinkering with my Rincon today. I pulled the Tech sheets on my Tektro Factory Discs. That really helped out a lot.  I have them adjusted per spec and they work very well. I had them close the other day.. but now they are much more precise. My rear rotor is warped I'd say about .1-.2mm so I had to leave the pad spread that much more open, but they work fine and it's no big deal.


  Next I repacked the front bearings. Figured I'd get familiar with the hubs and their workings. Well I'm a bit ticked off confused as to why i have old school loose ball bearings?! I thought these wheels/hubs whould have the sealed cartridge bearings.  Which in my experience are a lot better. So take it apart and carefully remove the grease seal b/c I have to re-use bing I don't have a new set...  use some brake parts cleaner to clean out the old grease and such...  and clean the bearings off in a cup.  I noticed the cups inside have what loook to be some hot spots. Discoloration, but no pitting. The original grease was some yellowish/amber grease. In the bearing area it had turned kind of grey.  So I put everything back together with some Valvoline Synpower grease. Now when I spin the wheel I hear some noise from the bearings... The wheel spins VERY well though.  So I'm a bit worried as to if something is wrong with the cups... or something. Any ideas?


  Ok, On to the Gear system. I pulled the Tech sheets for my shimano front & Rear Derailers. Start on the front one. It was *-eyed. so I adjust it per tech sheet and on the last step F'k it all up. When adjusting the "H" setting on the outer chain ring... it doesn't have enough adjustment. The derailer will not go "outward" enought to clear the chain properly. So after messing with the H set screw I begin playing with the cable that controls the derailer. NOW it's all F'ked up and I'm not sure what the heck is going on. I don't have enough Outward movement of the piece. it's like the Damn thing need to have more range of mobility. Low setting was fine.... what the heck happen to high???? I was going to adjust the rear.. but heck I didn't get the front done. Really need some help with this front derailer. I'm very mechanically inclined and can't figure it out. Like I said. My opinion is the front derailer doesn't work for the setup or something. the 3 chain rings are to far outward in relation to the seat post pipe.


 

Offline mmountainbiker

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 08:55:42 PM »
It would take me 5 minutes to fix all you said and who ever fixes it you should watch because its so simple. But I thought your bike was new. Why you messin with the wheel bearings?

Offline Skinman

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 08:57:58 PM »
 ;D   Sorry to laugh Taco...you sound just like me. I can do just about everything to a bike except fine tune derailers and build a wheel.

My suggestion is to find someone to show you how to fine tune the DR's. These good bike mechanics have all been through some voodoo witchdoctor class that us weekend mechanics dont know about.
Ii takes a finesse that I know I dont have.....

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Offline 4x4TampaTaco

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 09:04:06 PM »
Tell me about it.  I can built a set of Aluminum heads and machine the valves myself, I can Set up a Set of Gears in a differential to a T, but can't adjust a derailer??? WTF! lol.  Yeah... Gotta have someone show me "the way".  I got the brakes tuned perfect at least.  Reason I repacked the front bearing is I wanted to become familiar with my bike. I've never rode a bike I couldn't built from frame up. I didn't expect to see loose ball bearings. I was expecting sealed bearings. What is considered normal in MTB? Sealed or loose?


MMountainbiker- Care to share some knowledge?? why won't it go out far enough? I've already adjuted the H set screw.... and messed with the cable tension on the pull lever.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:09:26 PM by 4x4TampaTaco »

Offline mmountainbiker

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 09:15:26 PM »
Tell me about it.  I can built a set of Aluminum heads and machine the valves myself, I can Set up a Set of Gears in a differential to a T, but can't adjust a derailer??? WTF! lol.  Yeah... Gotta have someone show me "the way".  I got the brakes tuned perfect at least.  Reason I repacked the front bearing is I wanted to become familiar with my bike. I've never rode a bike I couldn't built from frame up. I didn't expect to see loose ball bearings. I was expecting sealed bearings. What is considered normal in MTB? Sealed or loose?

MMountainbiker- Care to share some knowledge?? why won't it go out far enough? I've already adjuted the H set screw.... and messed with the cable tension on the pull lever.
Well it depends if its a 50 dollar rim or a 1000 dollar rim.  as far as knowledge all I can tell you without being there is that 1 screw adjust how fardown the deraileur goes and the other one keeps the chain from falling off over the big ring. I dont know if you undid the cable but it seems the screw that adjusts it for the  small ring is good so you hqave to turn the other one after it is shifted to the bug ring. After you got it close use the barrel adjuster to fine tune it.  Im sure someone can explain it better. Did you back out the innerbolt on the rims


PS with the derailuer on the small ring loosen and take up any slack on the cable and retighten
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:17:33 PM by mmountainbiker »

Offline luckynumber9

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 09:17:55 PM »
alright taco.... the bearings; sometimes after opening they will make noise.  a little dust or who knows what else gets in there.  if you cleaned them out good and theres nothing in there that would do damage, don't drive yourself nuts worrying about the sound. 

the front deraileur... it sounds like when you reattached the cable the shifter was in position for the middle ring.  so look to see if the shifter is saying its on the big ring when really it is in the middle ring.

Offline 4x4TampaTaco

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 09:18:12 PM »
inner bolt? The spindle has a inner race nut and out lock nut. I only took one side apart and slide the axle out from the other side.  Like I said... after I cleaned it out the factory Cups  looked horrible. Discoloration and hot spotting.
Ok, probably dust then.  Weird... never had that happen before. Yes I cleaned them very well... Even used 80 PSI air compressor to blow the hub and everything clean before packing. Guess some dust got in. I'm assuming good quality synthetic car bearing grease is plenty for bike bearings?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:21:01 PM by 4x4TampaTaco »

Offline luckynumber9

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 09:20:41 PM »
just rearead the original post,  you say the fd wont go outward enough to clear the chain.  in that case it may be to low. 

Offline 4x4TampaTaco

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 09:22:23 PM »
It's 2mm above the outer/largest ring teeth tops. spec is 1-3mm above.  My opinion is this POS D.R. does not have enough in/out movement.  It's physically out as far as the DR will go. I remove the cable from it and pulled that sucker outward as far as it would go. the Lever where the cable goes maxes out... it's physically maxed out.

Offline luckynumber9

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2009, 09:24:19 PM »
check what i said in my first post.

Offline $irWattZZZZ

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2009, 09:24:52 PM »
Make sure you did'nt turn the cable retaining clip 180 degrees backwards when you reassembled the cable to derailer. I did this once and was like WTH? turned out that clip was bottoming out against the derailer mounting clamp and stopping further travel! If thats good, start over by pulling on the cable while you cycle thru the gears making sure the cable is all the way out (longest) and reattach, you may have been in 2 ? worth looking at. Once you are sure you have this done shift to the big ring again and fine tune with the H screw. LMK if this works out for you.

Offline luckynumber9

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2009, 09:27:33 PM »
i doubt its a pos fd.  In the last year I've been working at a shop and I have never ran into a fd that just wont work.  When properly set up they all can get the chain from ring to ring. nicer ones go smoother but they all get the chain from ring to ring

Offline mmountainbiker

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2009, 09:28:55 PM »
inner bolt? The spindle has a inner race nut and out lock nut. I only took one side apart and slide the axle out from the other side.  Like I said... after I cleaned it out the factory Cups  looked horrible. Discoloration and hot spotting.
Ok, probably dust then.  Weird... never had that happen before. Yes I cleaned them very well... Even used 80 PSI air compressor to blow the hub and everything clean before packing. Guess some dust got in. I'm assuming good quality synthetic car bearing grease is plenty for bike bearings?
I think your suppose to overtighten the inner race bolt just a little then tighten the outer bolt then back out the inner race bolt a little. If you overtighen it will make noises but can someone confirm that for us

Offline luckynumber9

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 09:38:39 PM »
inner bolt? The spindle has a inner race nut and out lock nut. I only took one side apart and slide the axle out from the other side.  Like I said... after I cleaned it out the factory Cups  looked horrible. Discoloration and hot spotting.
Ok, probably dust then.  Weird... never had that happen before. Yes I cleaned them very well... Even used 80 PSI air compressor to blow the hub and everything clean before packing. Guess some dust got in. I'm assuming good quality synthetic car bearing grease is plenty for bike bearings?
I think your suppose to overtighten the inner race bolt just a little then tighten the outer bolt then back out the inner race bolt a little. If you overtighen it will make noises but can someone confirm that for us

every tech has their own way of doing it. heres mine.

-get inners just tight enough to where there is no play in the axle, then go like 1/8 of a turn tighter
-tighten the outers to snug up to the inners
-back out the inners (they should only back out 1/8 of a turn)

noise can come from being to tight or too lose.  if the wheel rolls smoothly and theres no play thats what you're aiming for. if theres sound you could try tightening it up a little, but its a trade off for rolling resistance

Offline 4x4TampaTaco

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Re: Worked on Bike Today, have Q's & Need some Help
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 09:40:23 PM »
Well the H- Set screw is stripped out. If you losen the H set screw it allows the DR to move outward more. So looks like I'm buying a new DR. Fantastic. Well, now I know how a DR works. This is messed up b/c  my wife has the same bike and I've adjusted her DR's before and NEVER had an issue like this. So I'm betting that's why it was driving me nuts. I kept messing with the H screw but never got any adjustment either direction.

  As for the bearings I'll mess with that tomorrow. I did these like all the others. As tight as you can physically get them with your hands, then a touch tighter with a wrench, probly 1/16 or 1/8 of a turn. Then put the lock nut on. Done. check for play, there is none. I think it's dust. sounds like debre in there. on both sides. I'll repack them tomorrow with the garage door closed.  What about those seals that pop in/out, are you supposed to replace them every time? Also debating replacing the inner cups. Is there a magic bike grease to use? or is the syn valvoline fine?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 09:49:44 PM by 4x4TampaTaco »

 

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