Author Topic: Alafia Double Blacks  (Read 13894 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Darrinw2001

  • At least this is a Healthy Obsession, right?
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Karma: +106/-434
  • Gender: Male
  • aka "The OGRE" - Elite Epic Gonzo Soul Rider
    • Trips for Kids Tampa Home Page
  • My Bike: 2012 Salsa EL Mariachi Steel 29er 1x9 in Jungle Fever Green
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2009, 12:19:10 PM »
at least he didn't ask for a skills area jump park...that is the kiss of death...lol

I would like a pump track... that would be cool. I'll even help build it..:)
Please Help Trips for Kids Tampa!
Visit www.mtbyouthride.org to see how!

Offline FACTORe

  • Ride Guide & Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • *****
  • Posts: 4105
  • Karma: +25/-473
  • Gender: Male
  • team - independent self supported
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2009, 12:20:03 PM »
at least he didn't ask for a skills area jump park...that is the kiss of death...lol

I would like a pump track... that would be cool. I'll even help build it..:)

you would have better luck asking them to build a church at boyette

Offline ProEdgeBiker

  • PROUD TO SUPPORT OUR TRAILS By DONATING $30/yr to SWAMP for a FAMILY MEMBERSHIP!
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 1930
  • Karma: +97/-628
  • Gender: Male
  • *SPECIALIZED* My SWEATSHOP BOUTIQUE!
    • PROEDGEBIKER.COM
  • My Bike: Custom 09' Specialized Epic w/ Sweet SLR's
ON FIRE!
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2009, 12:20:41 PM »
this thread is on FIRE!
 

Offline FACTORe

  • Ride Guide & Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • *****
  • Posts: 4105
  • Karma: +25/-473
  • Gender: Male
  • team - independent self supported
Re: ON FIRE!
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2009, 12:22:21 PM »
this thread is on FIRE!
 



that dude got what was coming to him....he wanted a pump track

Online Darrinw2001

  • At least this is a Healthy Obsession, right?
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Karma: +106/-434
  • Gender: Male
  • aka "The OGRE" - Elite Epic Gonzo Soul Rider
    • Trips for Kids Tampa Home Page
  • My Bike: 2012 Salsa EL Mariachi Steel 29er 1x9 in Jungle Fever Green
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2009, 12:23:46 PM »
at least he didn't ask for a skills area jump park...that is the kiss of death...lol

I would like a pump track... that would be cool. I'll even help build it.. :)

you would have better luck asking them to build a church at boyette

not boyette, that is a preserve... Alafia would be cool. Santos has 2 and they are state land, dont see a reason why not there...
Please Help Trips for Kids Tampa!
Visit www.mtbyouthride.org to see how!

Offline FACTORe

  • Ride Guide & Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • *****
  • Posts: 4105
  • Karma: +25/-473
  • Gender: Male
  • team - independent self supported
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2009, 12:24:55 PM »
at least he didn't ask for a skills area jump park...that is the kiss of death...lol

I would like a pump track... that would be cool. I'll even help build it.. :)

you would have better luck asking them to build a church at boyette

not boyette, that is a preserve... Alafia would be cool. Santos has 2 and they are state land, dont see a reason why not there...


search the forum for some heated threads about pump tracks and Alafia...good reading

Online Darrinw2001

  • At least this is a Healthy Obsession, right?
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Karma: +106/-434
  • Gender: Male
  • aka "The OGRE" - Elite Epic Gonzo Soul Rider
    • Trips for Kids Tampa Home Page
  • My Bike: 2012 Salsa EL Mariachi Steel 29er 1x9 in Jungle Fever Green
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2009, 12:26:24 PM »
Or I even have another site in mind that I may approuch the county with after all this budget crap gets worked out. could even be a cool new MTB park... already trails there.....
Please Help Trips for Kids Tampa!
Visit www.mtbyouthride.org to see how!

Online Darrinw2001

  • At least this is a Healthy Obsession, right?
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Karma: +106/-434
  • Gender: Male
  • aka "The OGRE" - Elite Epic Gonzo Soul Rider
    • Trips for Kids Tampa Home Page
  • My Bike: 2012 Salsa EL Mariachi Steel 29er 1x9 in Jungle Fever Green
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2009, 12:29:01 PM »
are talking "Pump Track" or "Jump Track" ? that little skills area at Santos at the trail head is harmless... what could something like that do to hurt Alafia? that open area by Bridges/riverloop/Northcreek would be perfect for it.. 
Please Help Trips for Kids Tampa!
Visit www.mtbyouthride.org to see how!

Offline ProEdgeBiker

  • PROUD TO SUPPORT OUR TRAILS By DONATING $30/yr to SWAMP for a FAMILY MEMBERSHIP!
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 1930
  • Karma: +97/-628
  • Gender: Male
  • *SPECIALIZED* My SWEATSHOP BOUTIQUE!
    • PROEDGEBIKER.COM
  • My Bike: Custom 09' Specialized Epic w/ Sweet SLR's
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2009, 12:30:57 PM »
Or I even have another site in mind that I may approuch the county with after all this budget crap gets worked out. could even be a cool new MTB park... already trails there.....

the Pinellas County DUMP would be an awesome MTB Park.. super high elevations but some prob nasty gases...
 
they were talking about building a stadium there so i guess it cant be that bad

Offline Garry

  • Ride Guide & Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
  • Karma: +149/-89
  • Gender: Male
    • http://garrybikes.blogspot.com/
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2009, 12:34:44 PM »
....One thing that continues to sadden me is the continuous effort on the part of SWAMP to make every trail, even if it is a "double black" into a generic, smooth, sidewalk, designed for one bike type "xc".  I rode Moonscape yesterday and noticed that the climbs were all loaded with baby-heads and all the dh's were all smoothed out??  The first big dh was so loaded with dirt that the berm was completely wasted and could not be entered from the bottom.  It was because of this stupid trail change, that I blew the corner and dislocated my shoulder.  STOP TOUCHING THE DOUBLE BLACKS!!!!!  They are much better without your help... ....
Here's the deal - no trail that recieves any amount of use and abuse from both riders and Mother Nature is better left "not touching it."  That is just plain ludicrous. Trails get built and need to be reworked or changed in some way as they mature and receive user abuse.  One must remember that this is all volunteers who try to find time in their busy lives to go and actually make a trail that can be used by the masses with little recognition or appreciation of the hard work that goes into both making it, and keeping it maintained on a regular basis.  It is a full time job if that is what you expect.  There are no tax dollars to pay for a crew to go out and fix it like found on the countries road ways as one suggested.  It is FREE TIME given by a dedicated few.  Harder trails are built and skills get better for riders, so harder trails don't seem as hard as they once were.  The trails are designed and built with the IMBA rules of trail building in mind.  They are also built with erosion in mind and how often a group of VOLUNTEERS have to go back time after time to repair it.  Can it be much harder and require much more maintenance?  Yes.  Can it be difficult and less maintenance in mind so even the caretakers can find time to ride it?  Yes.  Many times I see the same faces and bikes riding the trails at the same time I am working them, but I keep working them all the same trying to make them to the point of very little maintenance.  That way I can ride too.  Maybe the next rain damaged trail won't be so bad next time because of the efforts that I, and those who stand shoulder to shoulder with me, do to make it a more sustainable trail.  Is it perfect?  No; what in life is?  Will it be a stronger longer lasting trail?  Yes.


Stop making the Double blacks into blue squares...  Leave something that is actually hazardous and difficult both up and down hill....
Ever hear of litigation?  Land owners and managers do not like being taken to court over injuries on their property.  Just a fact of life you will have to get a grip on.  By definition we still have "Double Blacks."   They may not be to the standard YOU place on them, but Double Blacks just the same.


You and your short travel bikes have miles upon miles of "xc" trails to play on.  Leave Gatorback and Moonscape alone as you are clearly incapable of supporting them in any useful way. 
Once again, the Trail Bosses do an exceptional job of designing, building, and maintaining a trail that receives hundreds of bike tires a week on them.  SOme who have no business on the trail because of subpar skills, and others who skill set is adequate for most any trail thrown in front of them.  Bottom line is the trail is worked to make it fun and sustainable at the same time.  Not an easy task.  One can't be everything for everybody.  If you dislike SO much, ride somewhere else that pleases you more.  It's built and maintained for FREE.  You're welcome.  :-)

Leave some diversity, the world of single track is not just for one type of rider.  Just because you can't ride it or it scares you, doesn't mean that you should make it easier, it just means you should ride something else!
The world of trail maintenance is not just for one type of rider.  Just because it is made to be sustainable and longer life shouldn't scare you from coming out to help make it better; perhaps you should ride something else that pleases you better.  Let others know where this jewel of a trail system is so they can ride it too.  The more trail choices the merrier.

Offline pha3drs

  • First Bike
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-25
  • My Bike: VP-Free
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2009, 12:35:30 PM »
mmm some good comments and some tipical 440 "roadie in disguise" comments as well...  First:  I just started riding again after spending 7 weeks in a wheelchair from a shattered ankle, I am getting old but I still love big drops (not downhills but actual drops), you laugh that I crashed but the dh that I wrecked on used to be a line that one could rip down without braking and carry all your speed into the next, albeit muddy section.  Now it is totally useless for carrying speed as you can no longer enter the berm from the bottom...  Yes, I should have checked it out before flying down and into the turn but I got excited and trusted that no one would be stupid enough to eliminate a sweet dh / berm... Guess I was wrong.  Anyone who wants to question my bike skill need only come on a ride, I may not be in great shape and have a ton of endurance but sick lines are my specialty, although the injuries are starting to take their toll.  How many of you have done the Trail Gap or Frankenstein drops ?? 

What are the requirements of the state?  How can Santos have the sweet lines they have and we get the shaft?  Sometimes the rain makes trails way better than humans do...  Double Blacks often benefit from erosion and trail wear.  What was the point of removing the drop/roll in at the jump section of Rollercoaster? It was made of rock and totally solid, the addition of dirt was solely to make the roll in easier....    crossies make the most noise and tend to be the majority of dirt riders because having great endurance isn't deadly, anyone can train, buy a light bike, wear spandex and make snotty comments about heavier bikes / riders and sick lines.  Just because you can't or won't ride nasty stuff doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in a state park...  See Santos...

Offline slowfatguy

  • Yellow Jersey
  • *****
  • Posts: 1661
  • Karma: +88/-194
  • Gender: Male
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2009, 12:41:23 PM »
Santos is NOT a state park. Everyone is always confused by this.
 
Where is this "berm" you crashed on? Right after the very first big downhill? Or after the ridge?
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Online Darrinw2001

  • At least this is a Healthy Obsession, right?
  • SWAMP Club Member
  • Yellow Jersey
  • ****
  • Posts: 2420
  • Karma: +106/-434
  • Gender: Male
  • aka "The OGRE" - Elite Epic Gonzo Soul Rider
    • Trips for Kids Tampa Home Page
  • My Bike: 2012 Salsa EL Mariachi Steel 29er 1x9 in Jungle Fever Green
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2009, 12:47:09 PM »
mmm some good comments and some tipical 440 "roadie in disguise" comments as well...  First:  I just started riding again after spending 7 weeks in a wheelchair from a shattered ankle, I am getting old but I still love big drops (not downhills but actual drops), you laugh that I crashed but the dh that I wrecked on used to be a line that one could rip down without braking and carry all your speed into the next, albeit muddy section.  Now it is totally useless for carrying speed as you can no longer enter the berm from the bottom...  Yes, I should have checked it out before flying down and into the turn but I got excited and trusted that no one would be stupid enough to eliminate a sweet dh / berm... Guess I was wrong.  Anyone who wants to question my bike skill need only come on a ride, I may not be in great shape and have a ton of endurance but sick lines are my specialty, although the injuries are starting to take their toll.  How many of you have done the Trail Gap or Frankenstein drops ?? 

What are the requirements of the state?  How can Santos have the sweet lines they have and we get the shaft?  Sometimes the rain makes trails way better than humans do...  Double Blacks often benefit from erosion and trail wear.  What was the point of removing the drop/roll in at the jump section of Rollercoaster? It was made of rock and totally solid, the addition of dirt was solely to make the roll in easier....    crossies make the most noise and tend to be the majority of dirt riders because having great endurance isn't deadly, anyone can train, buy a light bike, wear spandex and make snotty comments about heavier bikes / riders and sick lines.  Just because you can't or won't ride nasty stuff doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in a state park...  See Santos...

I dont question your bike skills, I question your manners, your inteligence, and your couth...
Please Help Trips for Kids Tampa!
Visit www.mtbyouthride.org to see how!

Offline pha3drs

  • First Bike
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: +0/-25
  • My Bike: VP-Free
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2009, 01:03:22 PM »
mmm some good comments and some tipical 440 "roadie in disguise" comments as well...  First:  I just started riding again after spending 7 weeks in a wheelchair from a shattered ankle, I am getting old but I still love big drops (not downhills but actual drops), you laugh that I crashed but the dh that I wrecked on used to be a line that one could rip down without braking and carry all your speed into the next, albeit muddy section.  Now it is totally useless for carrying speed as you can no longer enter the berm from the bottom...  Yes, I should have checked it out before flying down and into the turn but I got excited and trusted that no one would be stupid enough to eliminate a sweet dh / berm... Guess I was wrong.  Anyone who wants to question my bike skill need only come on a ride, I may not be in great shape and have a ton of endurance but sick lines are my specialty, although the injuries are starting to take their toll.  How many of you have done the Trail Gap or Frankenstein drops ?? 

What are the requirements of the state?  How can Santos have the sweet lines they have and we get the shaft?  Sometimes the rain makes trails way better than humans do...  Double Blacks often benefit from erosion and trail wear.  What was the point of removing the drop/roll in at the jump section of Rollercoaster? It was made of rock and totally solid, the addition of dirt was solely to make the roll in easier....    crossies make the most noise and tend to be the majority of dirt riders because having great endurance isn't deadly, anyone can train, buy a light bike, wear spandex and make snotty comments about heavier bikes / riders and sick lines.  Just because you can't or won't ride nasty stuff doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place in a state park...  See Santos...

I dont question your bike skills, I question your manners, your inteligence, and your couth...

Thats hilarious coming from you...  Of all the posters you have pissed me off the most...  I love the gall of people who think that their way is the only way and anybody who ruffles their feathers is bad, mean and uncouth...  boo hoo...  I don't come help to you build trails because I don't like your attitudes and beliefs that you know everything, more than mother nature or more than me because I don't ride like you or talk like you or wanna chase you around on sandpine day after day. 

Trail diversity is wonderful, and for the most part the work done by your crew is supreme but there are limits to those benefits when applied to Expert Trails.  I think covering up a rut on a double black trail is criminal.  I love what mother nature dishes out as far as technical trails are concerned.  What is allowed ??  How nasty can it be?  I remember Gator Back when the first roll in was so sick that it looked like something from Keystone's rock garden and yet the trail was still open...  Somehow I get the feeling that these changes and "trail closures" aren't the state's decision but SWAMP's...   

Offline drb81

  • Cycling Sherpa
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
  • Karma: +31/-208
  • Gender: Male
  • My Bike: is slow
Re: Alafia Double Blacks
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2009, 01:09:59 PM »
so a rut that has developed in a double black trail is due to mother nature? of all the times I've ridden alafia and other trails I've never seen mother nature on a bike. the trailwork is being done to repair the damage done by the users of the trails. Yes water run-off does a lot of damage but that water would not be taking the path down the trail if there was no trail to begin with. If all the trails were let go with no repair or work done there would be no trails. period. and yes, swamp maintains the trails not the state.
[/don]