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Offline kiltedranger

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Eating for Stamina
« on: February 04, 2010, 08:04:35 AM »
ALL:

I would like to open a topic of conversation that has become a reality for me. I know we have some certified STUDS and STUDETTES on this forum, and I humbly ask opinions.

I returned from Iraq this past September, and I did so on a Medevac plane. I spent three weeks at Landsthul Regional Medical Center as they diagnosed me with exercise induced hypoglycemia. I never knew there was such an animal.

Anyway, I am a fairly big guy, 6'3, about 230 to 235 depending on the time of day. Since returning to the States, and joining SWAMP, I have been racking up the miles. I have met some VERY good riders, and my game is increasing exponentially. I did the 6 hours of El Lagarto, and participated on a corporate team. That was my first event of that type, and quite frankly, I am HOOKED.


What I noticed was, my technical riding abilities remained constant, but fatigue set in, and I just did not eat properly for this type of riding.

Yesterday, I rode Balm Boyette, and again... I felt the fatigue of not having enough fuel in the gas tank. This does not happen every time I ride, only if I find that I don't eat properly.

So, please give me suggestions as how to monitor my intake, eat cleanly, and make sure on days that I ride, I eat the proper food to burn efficiently. My diet is very healthy by the norm. My only real vice is Coffee.

Again, thanks for the input... if I have not been specific enough, please let me know. I would eventually like to work up to doing a 6 hour event solo... you guys and gals that do that, have my respect.

Cheers,

Darren
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Offline Darrinw2001

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 08:16:22 AM »
Don't ask Gregg because he ate like 8 Gels at El Lagarto.... ;D
I don't think my issue is with food or diet, but afternoon rides always seem to take more out of me than morning rides. Usually it takes me a good 2 or 3 miles to get warmed up in the afternoon and sometimes longer, but morning rides I am fine after the 1st 1/2 mile. I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions on your issue though...

Offline Rocky Mountain OOTH

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 08:29:36 AM »
Kilted - everyone has an opinion on what the perfect fueling regimen is. I know you military guys like to do some research.  I would do a search for sports nutrition articles (from companies such as Hammer Nutrition, coaches, researchers (http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Paleo_for_Athletes_Cliff_Notes.pdf)

Take everything you read with a healthy dose of skepticism and experiment. You'll find what works for you.

What is it you're trying to accomplish?


Offline FACTORe

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 08:31:23 AM »
this is taken from one of my sponsor's sites...it hasn't failed me yet

"

Nutrition is a complex and confusing aspect of training for most people.  There is so much conflicting information out there, and often written by unqualified people.  We will provide you with simple, pertinent information on nutrition that is based on sound research from experts in the sports science field, as it relates to the aging athlete.

Post-Exercise Nutrition

Post-exercise nutrition is extremely important in order to maintain performance, but is often the most overlooked part of nutrition.  After strenuous exercise your body requires certain elements to effectively repair itself.  The glycogen has to be replenished, water and electrolytes have to be replaced and muscles need to be repaired.

To give your body the tools it needs to repair tired muscles, you must consume a high quality complete protein within 30 minutes of exercise.  This will help maintain a positive nitrogen balance, essential to the repair process.  Over time, you will loose critical muscle mass without this balance.  Within that same 30 minutes you must also consume a high glycemic carbohydrate, which will shuttle glycogen and protein to the cells.  A small handful of raisons will also help reduce the acid levels in your blood essential for nitrogen balance.

You may consume the protein and carbs in any form, either as a meal or a recovery drink.  We feel recovery drinks perform better than a meal because they are easier to digest immediately after strenuous exercise and are absorbed faster than a meal.  If it is a well designed drink, it will re-hydrate you and provide you with the correct ratio of carbs and protein.  We have designed a Recovery Drink for the older athlete that not only  provides you with the highest quality protein and high glycemic carbohydrate, but helps with the nitrogen balance, has the essential vitamins and minerals and has high concentrations of L-glutamine.

Within 30 minutes of your recovery drink, you should consume a meal also consisting of protein and a simple carbohydrate.  This well help replace lost calories and further enhance the recovery process.  Equally important is to continue to hydrate yourself, either with water or a sports drink.

This post exercise regime is critical to maintaining performance.  If you do not already use this form of post exercise nutrition, the increase in performance will surprise you.

Daily Basic Nutrition

As every athlete has different nutritional requirements, we will discuss the nutritional basics without going into too much detail.  For more detailed individual information visit our members section.

As we said before there is a maze of information out there some of it good some not so good.  Lets put it in simple terms and let you know what really does work.

        ·         Hydrate
·         Breakfast is your most important meal of the day.
·         Eat at least 5 times a day, 3 meals, 2 snacks.
·         Eat dinner early, before 7pm and make it light.
·         Avoid food high in saturated and trans fats.
·         Limit sugar intake (soda, cookies, candy, deserts).
·         Limit your alcohol consumption (it too contains sugar)
·         Avoid products made with high fructose corn syrup.
·         Avoid simple carbohydrates, except during and post- exercise.
·         Eat complex carbohydrates, whole grains.
·         Consume as much fresh fruit and vegetables as possible.
·         Consume foods rich in omega 3 fatty acids, like cold
        water fish and nuts.

Hydrate.  About 60-70% of your body is water.  Your blood is mostly water and your organs contain water.  Water is essential for your body to function.  Not drinking enough water puts a tremendous strain on your body as it tries to compensate to the lake of water.  As an athlete, it becomes more important since you loose much more water than a sedentary person.  Water regulates your body temperature, provides a means to transport nutrients to all of your organs, transports oxygen to your bodies' cells and removes waste.  If you take your body weight and half that number, that is the absolute minimum amount of water, in ounces, you should be drinking every day.

Breakfast is your most important meal of the day because it determines your metabolism for the rest of the day.  If you don't eat breakfast or have a small unhealthy snack your metabolism goes into defense mode and slows down.  By the time lunch comes around you are staving so you eat a huge meal but your metabolism is still very slow, most of the food is not metabolized correctly.  You will ultimately see the end result as unwanted fat around your mid-section.

Eating often during the day will help keep your metabolism stable.  You also won't feel as hungry and will be less inclined to over eat.

Eating dinner early will give your body adequate time to process your food before you go to sleep and your metabolism slows down.  Since processing food requires energy, the less food you have in your stomach at bedtime, the better you will sleep.

Eat the good fats.  Unsaturated fats which include polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats are an essential nutrients for good health.  They help lower LDL cholesterol and reduce the risk of heart disease.  They are found in foods like Olive oil, avocadoes, fish, almonds and flaxseed to name a few.  Saturated and trans fats should be avoided. They will raise your LDL cholesterol levels and can cause many health problems, heart disease being the most common. Saturated fats are found in foods like meat, cheese, butter, milk and in most processed foods. Trans fats are created when unsaturated fat is made into a solid, like margarine. Remember- fatty blood is also slow blood.
       
Avoid Sugars.  This would also include products made with high fructose corn syrup and simple carbohydrates also classified as sugar.  Sugary foods raise blood sugar levels, which makes the body have to work very hard to maintain a healthy level.  Sugars are also processed very rapidly by the body.  They breakdown into glucose, fructose and galactose, which get absorbed and used for energy.  Any glucose not needed is stored in the muscles and liver as glycogen, but once those stores are filled the rest gets stored as fat.  We consume more than enough sugar in our daily diets to fill these stores up, therefore the majority of simple sugars we eat are stored as fat.  This is not the case while exercising and post-exercise as we are constantly using the sugars for fuel as fast as our bodies can process them.  It is also better to use sports drinks or energy bars that are made from or contain glucose also known as dextrose.  Your body can process these fast to quickly provide you with the needed energy.

Eat Complex Carbohydrates.  You need carbs for fuel, but they should be complex carbs to sustain your glycogen stores without getting stored as excess fat.  A complex carb contains fiber which allows it to be digested at a much slower rate than a carb without fiber (a simple carb).  For example, white bread (a simple carb) has no fiber and is absorbed very fast, so the unused glucose gets stored as fat.  Whole grain bread (a complex carb) has lots of fiber, so it is digested far slower than white bread.  Your body will be supplied with a slow, steady source of glucose, which it will use as fuel and replenish glycogen stores.  During exercise and post exercise, your body requires far more fuel at a much higher rate, which complex carbs are unable to sustain. At these times you need simple carbs to provide you with fuel as fast as your body needs it, during and up to an hour after exercise.

Consume foods rich in Omega 3 fatty acids, also known as polyunsaturated fatty acids.  This is an important parts of nutrition as we age, not only because of all it's health benefits, but Omega 3's play an essential role in balancing the adrenal gland.  The adrenal gland produces the hormone, Cortisol.  Cortisol has many functions essential to overall good health, like keeping your blood pressure and blood sugar levels from getting to low.  One huge effect that Cortisol has on athletic performance is its ability to control inflammation.  The common belief that taking fish oil helps lubricate your joints is not altogether true.  Taking fish oil does make your joints feel better, but not because it lubricates them. It is because taking fish oil helps balance the adrenal gland so it can produce the required amount of Cortisol to counteract inflammation, which then eases the pain.  If you can't consume enough foods rich in omega 3 fatty acids, take a high quality cold water Fish Oil like the one we manufacture.  Our fish oil contains two fatty acids
EPA(Eicosapentaenoic Acid) and DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid), which will help your adrenal gland function properly and will reduce the aches or pains in your joints, enabling you to keep the up intensity in your training."

carb loading:

"Carb Loading will dramatically improve your performance and recovery.  It increases glycogen stores, essential for endurance.  Without them you will "hit the wall", muscles start to cramp and fatigue dramatically slows your pace.  If you do not have enough glycogen stores, your liver will start making glucose from amino acids and send it to your muscles.  This robs your body of vital protein necessary for muscle repair and rebuilding.  You end up with a double whammy-low glycogen and low protein, which makes recovery very difficult.  Carb loading does not mean consuming large amounts of carbohydrates days before your event.  The only thing that will achieve is add fat to your mid section.

To effectively carb load, you need to start about 2 to 3 days prior to you event.  Stay with your normal diet as long as it is a balanced diet including complex carbohydrates, but add a few more complex carbohydrates than you normally eat to each meal.  The exact amount depends on many factors, like lean body mass, length of the event and metabolism.  Carb Loader was developed to help with this problem.

Carb Loader is a high-plolymerization complex carbohydrate made from LCPF-50 (long-chain polymetric fraction) maltodextrin, one of the purest sources of complex carbohydrates.  Carb Loader contains complex glucose polymers that are metabolized at a very slow rate, making it an excellent way to build your glycogen stores.

Add two to three servings of Carb Loader to your diet per day, up to 3 days prior to your event for an easy fool proof way of carb loading."


you can get this and a lot of other information at www.outsidesport.com

Offline Triple T

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 08:31:35 AM »
What is it you're trying to accomplish?

I'm thinking he wants to avoid bonking a little too early.

I think there are a few subjects on this in one of the threads around here. 
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Offline kiltedranger

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 08:37:26 AM »
I'm hoping Jonesy chimes in... he's a big guy, and has the endurnce thing down. I have the needed power, I just seem to burn out quickly if I don't eat my normal routine.  My heartrate spikes, but I an bring it down quickly, so that's not my concern. I just want to get into a routine of a lifestyle, eating 5-6 times a day, so that when the bike ride comes, I don't have to worry.

I guess what I am rambling on about, is that I am really wanting to train my body to match the miles my HEAD want's to put on the bike. Does that make sense?  :-\

I'm looking at some ultracycling articles now, you beat me to the punch Luis! Everyone is different, and I have a special issue with my metabolism. The harder / longer I exercise, my body dumps insulin which puts me into a hypoglycemic state. This is easily taken care of, with the proper simple sugars, complex carbs, etc...
I just wanted to open the discussion and see other rider's routines. Some of you guys and gals really have your game together... I would like to compete in a 6 or 12 hour event, and remain consistent, with minimal SAG.
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Offline Singletrack Samurai

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 09:16:13 AM »
There is NO magic key.

There is no Magic answer.

Define endurance?

it takes me sometimes 25 miles before I feel warmed up.

I sometimes barely eat while I ride.

Luis is right.  Check out hammer nutritions tips, they are spot on with their advice.

YOU HAVE TO FIND what works for YOU.

What kind of FUEL YOU NEED.

You have to learn your body type and then work towards that.

THE RULE OF THUMB.  Is to load up on 300 calories or so 2 hours before your ride and then fuel 200 to 300 calories an hours as you ride.

What to load up on depends?

Unless I have to do a SUPER LONG RIDE, Meaning over 70 miles, I dont need to load up, I can just go on what I got in my stomach and eat a little here and a little there.

BUT EVERYONE IS different.

Its gonna take some experimentation.  What works for JONESY may not work for you.  and what works for ME may not work for this guy.

I think the most important thing, is to eat low glycemic easily digestible products as you ride, a sugar spike can cause  the bonk,  So when you do bonk, look at what you ate?

How do you fuel yourself regularly?  It could be that you just eat like crap and thats the kind of performance your always gonna get, to be frank?

Look at your daily fuel as much as you are the day of the ride or during the ride.

My recommendation, only mines, is to avoid processed foods as much as possible.  I am also a big proponet of this:http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

thats no secret as I am constantly teased about it.

Good luck, it took me 10 years to figure it out.


Offline Rocky Mountain OOTH

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 09:20:15 AM »
Luis is right.  Check out hammer nutritions tips, they are spot on with their advice.

I said read, I didn't say follow blindly... ;) 


Offline kiltedranger

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 09:27:22 AM »
Great stuff so far Mates... "food" for thought!
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Offline rob_squared

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 09:39:50 AM »
everyone has an opinion... just like everyone has a bung-hole....

here's my bung, err, opinion...

consider adding fat - unsaturated and low in omega 6 - to your nutrition for endurance. fat, as we know, is more calorie dense than protein and carbs.

some studies say to aid in fueling and to stop muscle break-down have "some" amount of protein too. that amount varies depending on who you ask...

best advice i can give is.... ride yer buns off. I can't stress enough that it takes years for most of us to build up a deep enough aerobic base to ride at a sustained effort for hours on end. doesn’t matter how good the food is if the muscles aren't accustomed to the effort. Like Karlos (singletrack samurai), it has taken me a decade to get to the point i can ride for 12 hours without turning myself inside out.

some folks also don't struggle like the rest of us and are "built" just a little different. that little bit of difference makes them look like they're superhuman... anyone remember Jon Lowe - AKA Super V.... freak of nature.

Offline Singletrack Samurai

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 09:54:17 AM »
Indeed.

FAT is the fuel for endurance.

CARBs are the fuel for short rides.

Rob Roberts is a wise man...

Offline FACTORe

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 09:58:40 AM »
Indeed.

FAT is the fuel for endurance.

CARBs are the fuel for short rides.

Rob Roberts is a wise man...

sort of but not exactly

this is why I gave you the email to my coach who is a Dr...he got his Dr at Colorado State and is part of the Chris Carmichael group think tank - you what the CC DVDs and you will see credit given to Graham.  He knows more on this subject than anybody I know and he takes all the myths and marketing and personal agendas out of the equation. Your health is something that you should put in the hands of somebody that has dedicated their life to learning and studying.  IMO

I don't know that much about it so I would rather trust somebody who does

Offline kiltedranger

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 10:05:49 AM »
Again, thank you all for your input. I am starting a journal, to track my progress and dietary requirements. I am very committed to this.

Cheers!
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Offline FACTORe

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 10:23:52 AM »
Again, thank you all for your input. I am starting a journal, to track my progress and dietary requirements. I am very committed to this.

Cheers!

cool - keep us updated

Offline Jonesy

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Re: Eating for Stamina
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 11:38:34 AM »
A lot of good advice given on the subject so far. I am not an overly scientific person, but I do enjoy reading about the experts understanding of sports nutrition.
I usually have the needed energy and endurance to do the long rides that I enjoy(40-50 miles) at a fairly fast pace (12-14avg). What I have found, is that the dietary habits I have through out the week make for the energy levels I have on the weekends. A good sized breakfast consisting of protein,vegetables and beans. No processed carbs or fast food, lots of fruit and vegetables, legumes, lean meats, dried fruits, nuts, and lots of water. I stay away from the gels, shot bloks, gus, sports drinks and other quick sugar fixes on rides. I take a variety of suppliments such as omega3, flax seed, co-q10, multi vitamin/ multi mineral.
 Those of us that have some extra body fat can trick the body to burn that for needed energy by adapting our blood chemistry to  lower glycemic levels. Without the easy energy available in the blood, the body will go after fat to burn. This does take a few weeks to get to start happening, but once it does, I have noticed I don't bonk, and I lost a lot of weight.(90 lbs)
These are only my opinions and findings from my fitness journey during the last two years.

 

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