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Author Topic: My new endurance coach(es)  (Read 1678 times)

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Offline Orion_134

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My new endurance coach(es)
« on: January 10, 2011, 03:57:11 PM »
Don't know if they know this yet, but Fe, SS, and R2 are my new designated coaches.  I will be pestering them with all sorts of ultra-endurance questions.  They should've sandbagged at the Naked Indian ride, but they didn't.  They were strong like bull, and now I have people I can harass. 
That is all.
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Offline rob_squared

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 04:45:15 PM »
I'm honored.

The number 1 skill to have to be an endurance junky.... lack of sense enough to stop.

Offline FACTORe

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 06:22:21 PM »
ride a lot and push yourself going longer distances - the key is learning your body and where your limits are. 

dont do too much too fast - try going 10% longer each long ride and build up in a sensible manner.  Riding rough terrain is interval workout in itself.

dont worry about speed work at first - just spend a ton of time in the saddle learning what your body tolerates as fuel for ultra distances. 

go slower than you think you should for long slow distance (LSD) rides, as you will be teaching your body to use fat sources as fuel (important because you will run out of food/drink stores)

learn what you personally need as far as hourly hydration

rest - all the work in the world doesnt do any good if you dont let yourself recover - recovery is when you body gets stronger and faster from your hard workouts.


Offline Orion_134

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 12:21:47 PM »
So when talking 10% increase, I assume we're talking time in the saddle?
As for rest, here's what my week looks like:
Weekend - 50+
M - ~10 road spin
W - 13-16 dirt group ride
Weekend - faster ~30 miles working on hills, pushing bigger gear, etc.
MW - same
6-8 hours of sleep each night.  Is all this enough rest?  Does rest = days off/light days or do you mean sleepy time?
Thanks for the tips...now if only I could become part cyborg...
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Offline Big-E

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 12:47:51 PM »
wait u can get 6-8 hrs sleep a night!!!  If i get 6 hrs that was a good night!!!

what i read into rest is easy rides.. no intervals.. Stay in zone 1 /2

Big-E


Offline Orion_134

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 12:51:17 PM »
e is my coach, not E:) jk. As for zones, define string = zones. I thought all riding was gauged by the funometer?
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Offline rob_squared

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 01:00:46 PM »
Oh, you were serious about endurance advice........ sorry.... i joke.....

Increase slowly - yes. You don't go out and ride 100 miles in one shot when the longest ride you've done is 30.... that'll make you hate it. 10% seems fair enough - time or distance will work. On the MTB distance is affected by terrain so time is likely a better way.

However, you will reach a point that provides little further benefit. 50 miles on weekends on the MTB is sufficient. Throw in an occasional 75 miler. Once you can ride, say, the entire Grueller route at a 12-13 mph average and feel good after, you're pretty damn fit. Matt Lee isn't going out and riding 100+ days for training for days on end.... it will tear you down.

Which leads to rest. Google "Sweet Spot Training". You can also search the www.windermereroadies.com/ web forum and find a lot of comments there. it will outline how to get a HUGE bang for your training buck. SST can let you ride 5, 6, or 7 days a week and if combined with good food and good sleep, will make you strong like bull! Realize, we are average, we have a job, we have limited $$ for coaching - work with what is available.

food is personal. some like powders and gels and others like solid food.... up to you (or better yet, up to your stomach). Ultra distance will almost dictate no powder/gel  and demand junk food. Sucks for sure. but when you are surviving off convenience stores, fresh fruit and veggies are rare. You can't carry enough food with you for a multiday ride to be "good" food - ain't gonna happen. You will need 8,000 - 10,000 calories a day for a fast hard attempt at, say, a TNGA. You can't carry lean chicken, fish, potatoes, rice, fruit and veggies ..... and sometimes you won't have a restaurant option. Learn what gas-station food works well BUT DON'T MAKE THAT YOUR TRAINING FOOD. Bread of any sort (sandwich, pancakes, cupcake, etc) is fast to pick up, quick to consume and turns to sugar in the blood very fast. High fat levels in food are also great endurance energy sources. Milk, bacon, olive oil (for real), fatty nuts, fried chicken finger.... very dense in calories. But only consume that “crappy” stuff while racing or multiday bikepacking when needed.

and back to my original statement.... "lack of sense to stop". I was somewhat joking, but not really. To race TNGA, RAAM, TD - you can't quite when you get bummed out. you must be resolute in your conviction and be able to manage the inner voice yelling to 'quit and go home to your nice warm bed.' You must not turn "OFF". Unless continuing is going to physically hurt you - injury or illness - you just always move forward.

My worst enemies this june = My mind and injury.

Offline mellowme17

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 01:52:37 PM »
Don't know if they know this yet, but Fe, SS, and R2 are my new designated coaches.  I will be pestering them with all sorts of ultra-endurance questions.  They should've sandbagged at the Naked Indian ride, but they didn't.  They were strong like bull, and now I have people I can harass. 
That is all.

you didnt seem to be having to much of a issue with the 61miles....
Yeah i am that guy with the socks

Offline Orion_134

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 03:54:14 PM »
Thanks for taking the time out for the response R2, but I can't believe you're sending me to a roadie site...oh the humanity...


you didnt seem to be having to much of a issue with the 61miles....

The joke's on you: I took all short cuts and only did 30 miles:)  Plus there's a motor in my seat tube and Jonathon gave me some of his dope.
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Offline Marcel Aguirre

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 01:54:45 PM »
I'm honored.

The number 1 skill to have to be an endurance junky.... lack of sense enough to stop.
LIES...  Just go get cyborg'ed and you will be fine.

Offline Orion_134

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2011, 08:20:40 AM »
Here's what I'm pondering: how enduro training will affect XC training.  Is enduro early enough in the season that it's really just base training?  Do I need to be working in intervals to the base training (i.e. is interval training a use-it-or-lose-it)?  Or should I be fine using enduro as base and I can start training for XC later in the season?  Can I expect my enduro to be much as I left it or better when I pick it back up after XC?

This is just what's rolling around in my head.  Feel free to touch any of these questions.  Yes, I still need to buy the Friel book...
'10 Epic 29er (shred machine)
'08 Gary Fisher Montare (urban/CX commuter)
'10 Rockhopper Comp 29er (SS soul-ridah pain cave)
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Offline rob_squared

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 11:32:26 AM »
My perspective on base vs enduro is one of ass time. Base training can be accomplished in relatively small amounts of time. Especially when considering how short xc racing is. An hour or two 4-5 times a week will build endurance during a base building phase of xc race training sufficiently.

Switch hats to 12 + hours of racing and you still have great endurance.... but lack conditioning in the butt, hands, back, neck, and other parts that are never stressed to those degrees.

Ultra enduro can get you to xc... but its hard to go xc endurance to ultra.

Speed and high aerobic and anaerobic work can be done shortly before xc season to get some speed. 2(ish) months of speed training can get you rounded out well.

One last thought.... I've read but don't know for fact - & neither does anyone else.... that once the human body is trained anaerobically at a high level, base aerobic capacity has been effectively capped. To uncap, large amounts of base training without going anaerobic Is needed.

Seems accurate to me when I make anecdotal observations of myself and others.

Offline Orion_134

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 12:52:28 PM »
So I can enduro train effectively up to 2ish months out from xc and then start my speed training. Once I peak in xc my enduro training and progress is done until after xc, cool. But when I pick up enduro again after xc is it safe to say I will be near where I left off or will it require starting all over? I'm going to look online tonight to see if I can download Friel's book to my phone or computer.
Thanks fit the response.
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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 02:00:37 PM »
LOVE IT!


Offline rob_squared

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Re: My new endurance coach(es)
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 10:49:58 PM »
you don't lose any significant base. but your body is in a different "mode". you can just resume the endurance stuff and over a transition period you will be back at it.

 

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