Topic: Keep postings on topic please

[Garry]

I just modified the recent "difference between hardtail and full suspension" posts to reflect the turn that heading has taken.  Please when you drift off subject go ahead and start a new topic.  Thanks.

[SandPine]

Why am I the only one replying if we all have an opinion on this???  This is not a dictatorship now is a "community forum" for what the community wants.... Right? ? ? ?   So here we go.....   Save your slaps for later please....

Dear Gary and ALL,
I appreciate you trying to keep us under control.  I know how frustrating it is to come into the forum to read up about tires only to find out someone changed the subject to riding hard tail or wathever....  It is frustrating... Specially if you can't make it to the forum often and just want to get a quick look to see what threads to read and not miss what is being discusses in OUR community.  I don't have time to follow 10-15 pages of talk about riding when the subject says "milage mayham..." or whatever... If I don't read that thread, I might miss some good information about what is going on in our community though.

So my advice if you have missed reading the forum in a few days is to pick up the last page of the thread and see what is now being discusses and read up from there before you reply.  Sure try to stick within the subject.  However, our forum is more then just an "information source"...  heck if I want to go read about full suspention vs hard tails, I can go read up in the library or the internet.  But no I don't jsut want that.  I want ot know what my friends have to say regarding this subject.  Sure, the conversation will "drift" to something else like riding a particular trail, falling on that trail, or can ride that trail cuz I am riding road now...  Well is a "conversational forum" and NOT just an informational bulletin board.  It is being used more like normal conversation and as with normal conversation where people care about things and our fellow riders, the conversation is going to drift to something else.  I am sorry about that but that is the way it is being done by ALL of us here.

We should attempt to stay within the subject.  However, don't prevent us from speaking our mind about what we think or is happening at that moment amongst my friends, my community, swamp, life, whatever....   Sure is frustrating to see a thread changed to something else.  I may not want to read about what tires I want or full suspension vs hardtails.  I may not care about it at that time.  But if I don't read it, I am going to miss what my friends things about that or what is happening to them in their lifes that came up in the time they were posting a reply... Just natural conversation i guess...

Okay said enoug... now, let the smitter smite me hard.. give it to me... give to me now hard....  LOL.... so what is the weather like for a road ride?  LOl... Just kidding...           is all good fam....

[perchman]

Apparently my last post has somehow resulted in criticism as being "off topic".  After re-reviewing all of the posts, this seems unfair.  My post was in response to someone who had earlier suggested that tires and their pressure can be used to alter/ enhance the ride of a hardtail bike.  Then, someone suggested the need to "float" using their legs instead just sitting the entire ride, again, in discusssing ways to alter/enhance the ride of a hardtail bike.  How is this off-topic?  Sure makes a forum "newbie" seem welcome, I can assure you.  How many times have I seen topic discussion  between forum "regulars" turn into "want to meet at hole in the fence", or, simply progress into amicable personal jabs at one another that go on and on?  Look back and you'll have to agree.  I think I'll wait until I'm in the "in crowd" before I participate any further.

[FACTORe]

anybody that posts in forums anywhere with a regularity know that threads often go off topic.  this is because they are like conversations.  conversations often start at one place and end up somewhere else.  if a third party comes in on a conversation that may have taken a turn at some point after the fact, they will be a bit lost.  but that doesn't mean that it was a bad conversation or where the topic turned wasn't relavent.  over moderated forums don't work...period.   if tire pressure effects how hardtails or full suspension bikes work, logic says that it might be a natural progression to drift toward tire pressure in a thread that is titled "hardails vs full suspension" 

simple solutions:

1.  make the thread titles vague if you don't care to have your posts micro-moderated
2.  if you don't read the forum for 3-5 days, simply start from where you left off rather than trying to get the jist of what is happening by reading where the conversation ended up. 

[FACTORe]

Apparently my last post has somehow resulted in criticism as being "off topic".  After re-reviewing all of the posts, this seems unfair.  My post was in response to someone who had earlier suggested that tires and their pressure can be used to alter/ enhance the ride of a hardtail bike.  Then, someone suggested the need to "float" using their legs instead just sitting the entire ride, again, in discusssing ways to alter/enhance the ride of a hardtail bike.  How is this off-topic?  Sure makes a forum "newbie" seem welcome, I can assure you.  How many times have I seen topic discussion  between forum "regulars" turn into "want to meet at hole in the fence", or, simply progress into amicable personal jabs at one another that go on and on?  Look back and you'll have to agree.  I think I'll wait until I'm in the "in crowd" before I participate any further.

i absolutely 100% agree with you.

[treadlight]

everybody gets an AMEN.....

[Homer 2-Niner]

you guys are all right.. an over moderated forum will not work..  i am not one for the topic gestapo, however you guys need to remember that the moderators are just volunteers making sure that people don't say things that are going to get the club into trouble..  THIS IS A PUBLIC SITE..

so like marcel, factoree and everyone else has stated.. lets try to stay on topic.. and if the conversation drifts a little.. then we can start a new topic..  some of the old threads in here need some archiving anyways..

so, yes it can get annoying when someone keeps telling you to stay on topic.. but remember some people only use certain topics for information and opinions, not for conversation..  i personally like to see how one topic tends to flow into 3 or 4 more topics..  kind of like how trails flow from tricky technicial stuff to super fast single track..

now you guys watch the thread will start to follow the flow of a trail.. and i think thats cool, again like you guys have said this is a conversational forum and its nice to see what your friends are doing, thinking, riding, or whatever at any particular moment especially when we are not on the chat at the same time..

-ok my two cents..  probably contradicted myself in there.. just remember try to stay on topic, dont feel like you have to worry about someone yelling at you either.. its a club forum and we're all in the club!

-Bob 

[perchman]

Maybe I took this too personally, but, after watching this forum for some time before ever joining in, I had never seen such a "reprimand" before.  And it wasn't from just from the moderator, but other members commenting on how this had somehow gone way off topic.  Hard not to feel this way when earlier in the discussion there were conversations about going to Gators that did not get this type of response.  I would never advocate over-moderation, but, if you are going to do it, do it in moderation (no pun), do it fairly and when appropriate, and remember that when you do it, it might be perceived as a somewhat personal attack so be prepared to defend how it was justly applied.

[SandPine]

Mr. Perchman,  And everyone else...

Please.. Please... don't take this personal.  There is some moderation going on but I know Gary and others on here personally.  I consider them good friends.  I can tell you that they will never apply it to anyone in particular for a particular reason.  It may have been at the moment they saw it or they fealt it was one too many times done by several other people.

We need some form of moderation to keep information organized.  I think we all can agree with that.  But never to band any other conversation that may result as of something that started somewhere else.  Specially if is to support the subject of the thread even if it drifts to something else.  Is just like conversation.   I am very guilty of the "chat like" posts and will try to limit them.  I know my friends are on here and we tent to joke with each other often.  Forgetting that EVERYONE is on here.

For the newbies on here, you do NOT have to be part of the "in crowd" to participate.  Feel free to ask questions away or comment as you feel please.  Make fun of my closet roadie riding posts....      Let's attempt stay within thread subjects to make it easier to read or follow conversations.  But, by no means should it prevent us from offering extra opinions of other things that may be going on.  I am very guilty of this since I tent to forget that this is not a private place.  Is public place were our conversations can be heard/read by anyone.  So my invites to Gators after the Tuesday night rides were out of line for the subject thread, but it was a sincere invitation for any of you to join us and make new friends to know us in more then just what brings us together here.  Which is to talk about mountain biking.  (and road biking :-)... 

Peace....

[perchman]

Sandpine, I wasn't meaning to call you or your discussion out for any purpose other than to point out that the conversational nature of this forum lends itself to that "drift" off the original topic sometimes, normally without repercussions.  Please don't take any offense to the fact that I used that example, it was not meant that way at all.  And again, I think that the conversational tone that exists here should never be changed.  This is a great club and community that would lose the family feel if that were to occur.  I don't care when I read that someone's going to Gators or meeting at a trailhead even when that wasn't the original topic.  The inclusiveness of this forum and this club is always evident by the "whoever wants to...should meet us there" attitude.  That's why the sudden topic moderation seemed strange.  I'm over it. Let's ride.

[Garry]

Trust me, no one is being singled out or reprimanded.  Unfortunatly there is no way to percieve the tone of the written word in this context without an over indulgence of smiley faces added in.  With that said I would just like to point out that this is not a forum of ONLY SWAMP Club, but anybody from across the United States can join in.  Therefore if the posted topic is just a rambling conversation between three or four people what does someone from Colorado or New York get when they open a subject heading that may interest them?  That is the point of keeping on subject.  Some of us who do moderate do so when time allows us to and sometimes not done in a timely manner or what would seem fair if one persons post is mentioned and not anothers.  Not that they are being singled out, just that after a 12 hour day, walk the dog, get a ride in before the sun goes down and the crack dealers close off the intended route thewre is little time to send everyone a personal note explaining the process and not wanting to micro moderate either.  A blanket post to cover everyone who reads it seems simpler.  Please do not take this post as going off or being mean in any way shape or form.  Just trying to be informational as I am trying to type and put my bike socks on at the same time so I too can go enjoy the sport I love.  And when I come back it would be cool to sign on, open a post that interests me - "Babes on bike chase long legged cyclist", or anything pertaining to - well - bikes.  :-)
Peace to all and a great rides.  :-)

[treadlight]

Trust me, no one is being singled out or reprimanded.  Unfortunatly there is no way to percieve the tone of the written word in this context without an over indulgence of smiley faces added in.  With that said I would just like to point out that this is not a forum of ONLY SWAMP Club, but anybody from across the United States can join in.  Therefore if the posted topic is just a rambling conversation between three or four people what does someone from Colorado or New York get when they open a subject heading that may interest them?  That is the point of keeping on subject.

I am all for keeping the "discussion" relevant to the posted topic which is very hard thing to do. Im a member of three Forums in this country and one outside the country and often moderators will moved threads and assigned a posted topic. Moving these threads and assigning a new topic is challeging but is necessary to put order on an open discussion forum.

Maybe I took this too personally, but, after watching this forum for some time before ever joining in, I had never seen such a "reprimand" before.  And it wasn't from just from the moderator, but other members commenting on how this had somehow gone way off topic.  Hard not to feel this way when earlier in the discussion there were conversations about going to Gators that did not get this type of response.  I would never advocate over-moderation, but, if you are going to do it, do it in moderation (no pun), do it fairly and when appropriate, and remember that when you do it, it might be perceived as a somewhat personal attack so be prepared to defend how it was justly applied.

I feel you bro, on other forums I had threads that just disappears or relocated to boards they should not be and its iritating that all "your" stuff will just be misplace or deleted. But in the end, we are users and moderators has rights to change or alter threads they might perceived inappropriate, misleading, misinformed...blah, blah, blah, blah. Lets just go ride perchman and maybe we teach me some moves . See you in the trails bro.

[FACTORe]

I am all for keeping the "discussion" relevant to the posted topic which is very hard thing to do. Im a member of three Forums in this country and one outside the country and often moderators will moved threads and assigned a posted topic. Moving these threads and assigning a new topic is challeging but is necessary to put order on an open discussion forum.

i agree but the problem is that discussions that are relevant are being moved and edited. 

this is a mountain bike forum for christs sake!!! aren't we supposed to be a group of people that flow and move in a way that isn't so uniform?  if some biker from new york gets their panties in a wad because a thread that is showing an injured member of that forum pictures of boyette takes a turn towards "hope you guys get better and can be back out at the trails soon".  then they more than likely they were looking for a roadie forum anyway. 

And if the guy from colorado can't fathom how a hardtail vs fs discussion can take a turn to tire pressure (the two things are logically connected) then we are all in trouble.

If a moderator wants to come in and edit my posts, do something useful like correcting my horrible grammar. (i know it is bad)

i like you am a member of multiple forums and anybody that frequents forums for any amount of time at all knows that threads drift more times than not.

Now thread jacking is a different story..that is what generally gets edited in a lot of the forums i frequent.

and a simple icon like can send a message to somebody without having to call people out and change their words around.


the bottom line is over moderating causes people to quit posting.  I feel all of us newbies like me and a lot of you old schoolers all have something worth while to bring to the table.  people being affraid to talk is a recipe for less conversation which is not good for a message board. 

ok - i am going to be quiet now...i am starting to "drift" 

here is a picture to prove it:





now is it possible for a:














group hug

[Gregg]

First I want to say to Garry I really understand what you are saying, and I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish.

 I also look at but have only posted once to another bike forum, that the name escapes me as I write this. Some of the stuff that is written on that forum is just plain ridiculous. People call each other names, and insult each other for the stupidest reasons. "you ride a what? you #$^&", Real jerky stuff.

This forum does represent the SWAMP Club, and as far as I can tell it really is a unusual club, in the way the rides are conducted and how it is a very social club, not just a bike geek club (I mean me too ).

Because of the nature of the club, and the apparent openess (sp?) of the people involved, the conversation flows freely. We share and debate ideas. Disagree even, but generally respect each other. We seem to value each others opinions. There are about 20 ish of us that are on  and participate here a lot. So we sort of know each other in some capacity. Everytime someone new chooses to participate, every one of us welcomes them with open arms.

In my opinion the guy or girl that is looking at this forum, in Washington, or New Mexico,or Osh Kosh should see what a great community Swamp is and how naturally the conversation flows, and how much we love off road biking here in Florida. It is however; incumbent on them to realize this is a Forum not a Bulletin Board. It is up to us to behave as adults.

Perchman, I too take this personally sometimes. So I understand your reaction. I have had it too.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that this is a forum about our spouses, or our nephew's nursery school. Off road biking is what brought us together, we will talk about all of that other stuff while we are together, and as we get to know each other better while we are riding, but in the middle of the thread, someone says "we should go ride, how about thursday?"  Or "how is your injury healing?" This is clearly biking related. If it is biking related, it should clearly be part of this forum. Just remember, (and here is where I am guilty!) that if that converstation that is off topic continues for more than a post or two, move it to a private message or a new thread, or even a phone call.

I had a debate with someone this past week or so, that when I said that these were conversations, they disagreed with me. Please look up the literral definitions of Forum, General , and Discussion. I believe you will see what I mean. It is literally an open public converstion, we "the club" just choose to make it about biking.

That means, again in my opinion, Tires, Injuries, trail conditions, and time trials, and riding safety...snakes...etc.......

In summary I do believe that there should be oversight, and I think that Garry, and Kevan deserve tremedous credit, the reality is without them, we wouldn't have this forum. They don't get paid, they work this into their spare time, and they do it because they love biking. Conversely this is NOT a Bulletin Board, which means that there can and should be back and forth with some leeway (sp?) side to side.

As for the issue of applause or smite. It is an issue of respect, as far as I am concerned. If you don't agree or like what I have said , you are completly entitled to that and frankly I don't expect you all to do so. Either reply with an opposing opinion and let's learn from each other, or send a private message telling me what jerk I am , or just move on, But don't under a cloak, disrespect me, or anyone on this forum, we are here because of our love for off road biking, and presumably because we enjoy the forum.

Those are my thoughts, thanks for letting me share them with you, I will continue to participate in this forum. I have rambled enough.  


Gregg

BTW, As I rode Panther today, I thought how much I love my hardtail


Just saw the group hug that Jonathon posted!! Love it!

[chisel]

Dont edit posts, it is lame. Those are my .02 cents