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Author Topic: Racing Categories  (Read 14761 times)

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Offline FACTORe

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Racing Categories
« on: May 29, 2007, 07:39:15 AM »
Man, sandpine you are going to make me work so hard for this one! Well all of the other racers in my class can blame you this fall series when they lose and call me a sandbagger. ;D

surely somebody that does that many miles cant possibly be in a beginner class - sandbagger  ;)

on a serious note....when a beginners class is filled up with non-beginner riders, it just discourages true beginners from entering these events.

by definition:

Noun   1.   beginner - someone new to a field or activity
initiate, tiro, tyro, novice
unskilled person - a person who lacks technical training
abecedarian - a novice learning the rudiments of some subject

« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:57:57 AM by Trek8500 »

Offline Homer 2-Niner

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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 09:12:59 AM »
Man, sandpine you are going to make me work so hard for this one! Well all of the other racers in my class can blame you this fall series when they lose and call me a sandbagger. ;D

surely somebody that does that many miles cant possibly be in a beginner class - sandbagger  ;)

on a serious note....when a beginners class is filled up with non-beginner riders, it just discourages true beginners from entering these events.

by definition:

Noun   1.   beginner - someone new to a field or activity
initiate, tiro, tyro, novice
unskilled person - a person who lacks technical training
abecedarian - a novice learning the rudiments of some subject



yeah but beginner in racing means that you are not registered with Norba or have not entered races in the Sport Class.  Usually the difference in the races (well in North Carolina) as I have not raced here YET  ;)  is the distance.  The courses are usually the same for all races, and laptimes and distance of the total race is significantly better with Sport Riders..  plus most Sport Riders are guys that live to ride their bikes.. I mean these guys are trying to get sponsered so they can race and earn money...

....two cents (from North Carolina).. take it for what its worth..
Hey Original Ells, I'll see you out there this year! 

-Bob
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:58:43 AM by Trek8500 »
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Offline FACTORe

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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 09:22:59 AM »
there needs to be a true begginers class then....the system is flawed

in bmx the race officials always had the right to bump sandbaggers up a class to make for fair competition


bottom line is if you are running quicker lap times than racers in the sport class you are just trying to get an easy trophy...i guess winning a trophy is more important than growing a sport
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:58:51 AM by Trek8500 »

Offline Homer 2-Niner

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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2007, 09:50:05 AM »

in bmx the race officials always had the right to bump sandbaggers up a class to make for fair competition

bottom line is if you are running quicker lap times than racers in the sport class you are just trying to get an easy trophy...i guess winning a trophy is more important than growing a sport


first off, racing coordinators can "shuffle" around racers based on performance in any race..  and yes it is done in MTB racing also.  :)

more often than not, winning beginner racers are not beating the laptimes of Sport Riders.. let us just say that there are 10 riders in each class, yes the winning beginner racer may have a faster time than the last 3 racers in a Sport Class, but may have also raced less one lap or about 10 or 12 miles...  That is significant.. 

I am not defending sandbagging   :o .. personally I think it sucks  :-\ .. and yes there are those that do sandbag, but if you are just racing 4-6 times a year then really you are just a beginner.. beginners such as yourself can "gauge" or measure yourself against winning riders in the beginner class...

Gives you something to shoot for ;). Just look at the results from the Squiggy Race this year...  most of those riders are beginner racers as they dont race very often.... but  you will see on of the Solo riders was moved to the advanced class... 

Hope that helps..

-Bob  ;D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:59:00 AM by Trek8500 »
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Offline FACTORe

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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2007, 09:55:00 AM »
i am glad they have sandbagging rules in place.

i personally don't mind racing faster racers because it will only make me better.

perhaps there should be a novice class...you can race in it 3 times and regardless of how you progress skills wise you are bumped up to begginer.  that way true begginers can compete with people on their same ability level.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:59:11 AM by Trek8500 »

Offline Marcel Aguirre

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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 09:55:42 AM »
Just RIDE baby!!!!  

I sangbag when the SWAMP group rides are at Croom and at Alafia.  Instead of riding with the B/B- group I do a B-- or C ride.  So there... I am a sandbagger.  I admit it.  I need to go to my monthly SandBaggersAnonymous (SBA) meeting.   :o  :o  :o  :o LOL...   I will soon become an "official"  8) SWAMP trained guide.  Guess what, I will probably be sandbagging by guiding the D's (if there is one), C's, and B- to start with.  (official since I guided before without the proper training).  LOL....

Just RIDE baby!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 09:58:31 AM by Trek8500 »

Offline Homer 2-Niner

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 10:22:26 AM »
Funny Story about Sandbagging!!!   ;D Which shows just how many racers in front of this guy where Sandbagging too..

Check it Out the article is titled the Sandbagger Award on the MTB side of Bicycling Magazine Online.

-Bob  ;D
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Offline FACTORe

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 10:39:35 AM »
funny article

Offline chisel

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2007, 03:37:56 PM »
By norba rules if you have five top five finishes in the season then you are expected to move up to sport. Dont underestimate the speed of the riders in begginer, because if you do you will be in for a rude awakening. The top five riders in begginer are ussualy seasoned riders that earned their way up to the top and in the following season after placing in the top five, five or more times will be expected to move up to sport. Sport riders in Fl. are not really much faster than the top five begginers but the extra lap does force one to work on the endurance a bit.    Factore, there is a first timer or novice class if that interests you. It may help get you formilliar with the workings of the race then you may decide to step up to begginer. Like I said before the begginer class is fast, dont let the name fool you.     Trek8500, That is awsome that you are going to race this season that will be alot of fun. What is your racing age going to be?

Offline FACTORe

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2007, 03:43:57 PM »
it just seems funny to me that they name a class begginer that is anything but begginer riders - i guess that sandbagging is so epidemic that it seems the norm - a begginer class should be people that have been riding mtb for less than a year or some criteria like that


Offline FACTORe

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2007, 03:47:26 PM »
You have a newbie that rides once in a while at flatwoods that wants to enter the squiggy race - they show up and there are  all these veteran joe riders riding in a begginers class.  how does that help people progress into this sport?  it discourage participation.  no matter how you slice it, it is bad for the sport.  we need to encourage participation.  every other successful sport you move up the ranks through progression.  if the first step of this progression is advanced, which the state of mtb is now, it is piss poor planning on whomever it is that is in charge of making these classes.

a logical progression:

novice
inetermediate
expert
pro
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 03:53:14 PM by FACTORe »

Offline EllsRider

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2007, 03:51:27 PM »
If you have 5 top finishes in a race season you are required to move up. If you don't, you can stay in beginner as long as you want.  There were sandbaggers in our beginner class last year.  It is not up to the race director to move people into a higher class. It is self regulated by the racers. If no one objects to a guy sandbagging he will be allowed to do it. I learned the rules as theyear went on and as you get to know peoples names. By checking past race results you can tell if a person is a legitimate beginner or not.  Thats the official system on whether a person is a sandbagger or not. I believe that the beginner class should be for beginners. Once you have raced a season or say 5 races, then the next year, they should have an advanced beginner class. Then for that class the official rules should come into play.  The top 2 guys in my class last year should have been in sport. They each had 5 top 5 finishes in the past. If I would have known about it, I would have called tham out and forced them to move up. Myself, I am still eligible as a beginner. If I race it this year, I will be  contending for 1'st place every race. Whether I win or not will depend on other race variables like mechanicals, accidents... but I know how strong I am now compared to the riders last year and I know I will be doing very well if I go beginner. I want a bigger challenge so I am 95%  certain I will be going for the Sport category. For this I will do  twice the distance as the beginners and will be competing against riders more at my level. Thats if I keep riding and training. If I stop training,  you lose your power pretty quick. Once you move up to the Sport level, you cannot return to Beginner.

   FactorE.... there is usually a novice class, or first timers class at most of the races.


Either way anyone goes, Beginner or Sport, the races are a blast. I had  a great time last year and am doing it again this year.

Trek8500- it doesn't matter whether you are NOrba registered or not. They actually encourage you to register.


There were guys I raced against that have been in the Beginner category for 5 years. They never win enough to move up. Usually in the 4 -9 places. It is competitive, You won't win unless you train.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 03:56:22 PM by EllsRider »
" Not this time, Lance"

Offline FACTORe

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2007, 03:54:07 PM »
how many races locally are there in a year?


Offline chisel

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2007, 03:58:14 PM »
Not true my friend. An average joe out on the trail wanting to race would do the novice class. When you are starting out you are going to have to earn your way to the front as everyone else has done or are still working on doing. The progression does not stop at sport it goes on to expert divisions and semi pro then pro. Do you think you should enter a race season and by your third race you crush the field?

Offline EllsRider

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Re: Racing Categories
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2007, 03:59:04 PM »
I think the race series was 8 races. There are other races that  go on all the time. The fall series put on by GoneRiding is the one we are talking about. GoneRiding.com Check it out!
" Not this time, Lance"

 

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