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Offline slowfatguy

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Tubeless
« on: June 23, 2010, 11:40:52 PM »
I see it being discussed in the shout box, so I thought we could bring it down here where more people can see it.
 
Personally I love tubeless. I'm 225lbs+gear, and I run a UST rim (Mavic 819) with UST tires. I've recently experimented with a non-UST tire (Maxxis Aspen) on the front, and so far it has been really good, but I'm extra careful with the pressure. My only experience with non-UST tubeless was less than favorable. Blew the front tire off the rim and ate it hard. That was a non-UST tire and a non-UST tire. I've also seen this happen to a couple friends, and so I'm especially cautious about this type of setup.
 
Typically with a UST/UST setup I run 32psi in the front, and 36psi in the rear. I can run less, but find I tend to have a problem with burps at lower pressure, or the tires get squirmy. I tend to ride pretty hard though, jumping off and into things alot of people don't, and it is only once in a great while I have a problem. But I'd rather ride with the peace of mind that if I do something goofy my stuff will hold up.
 
For my 29'er I'm building I might try the tubeless. I'm building the wheels with Stans Flow rims, so it will be an experiment to see what happens. I'll start out with tubes and go from there.
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Offline Darrinw2001

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 07:28:53 AM »
OK, i'll give my account of my tubeless experiance.
 
the 1st time it was due to the bike I bought used had tubeless wheels and non-tubeless tires w/stans in them for puncture protection. They were a good set-up until I had the front tire roll off the rim in a lay-down crash one day. a goopy mess that would not re-seal, so had to put a tube in..
 
2nd time, I set up a non-tubeless tire and a non-tubeless rim with a ghetto stans set-up. worked fine until I had a sidewall issue with the tire and it leaked stans fluid everywhere. I could not get the new tires to hold the bead, plus it was a pain to set-up the tires at 1st, and I really did not run the tires at any less of a pressure I did when I had tubes.
 
I weigh 255 and run my psi at 35 rear and 30 in front, any less and it feels wrong. I have no pinch flat issues and get plenty of grip at this psi with my tubes. I get my tubes for $2 each at price point, and usually if you have an issue with a Stan's set-up on the trail you need to use a tube to get you back to the car anyway. So for now I avoid the goopy mess, expense of stan's fluid, and the pain it getting them set-up... If I were a lighter weight and wanted to run my psi at 25 or so, I would look at tubeless again...
 
I may down the road try a true UST set-up with both UST rims and Tires since I am sure it is a much easier way to go.
 
that is just my experiance with it, others I know love tubeless both ust and/or stan's conversion set-up, but for me, it is really more of a pain with little (if any) gain.

Offline Kevin Bennett

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2010, 07:50:19 AM »
My experience.  I first went tubeless with my C-29s (Crossmax 29er) and Rampages about three years ago.  The rims are tubeless, the tires are not.  I had some trouble with the rear, but added more Stans and was fine.  In my infamous crash at Santos, I blew the seal on the front, but was able to get it to hold using 2 CO2's.  It held for an hour and a half and got me back to the parking lot.  I have since set up Maxxis Ignitors and Aspens on those rims.  The Ignitors were a piece of cake and the Aspens were a PITA.  I am convinced one of my Aspens has a larger inside diameter it is so loose.  I also have a set of Flows, and it took all of 20 min. to mount up my Ignitors to them.  I actually rode them around the neighborhood with just air in them.  I do prefer to run tubeless over tubes, but certainly understand those that don't want the hassle.  My only complaint is it makes switching tires for the conditions not worth the effort.  All the tires I tried were regular non-UST and held with 1.5-2 scoops of Stan's.  I use the soapy water and shake like hell method.
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Offline Darrinw2001

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 08:06:59 AM »
My experience.  I first went tubeless with my C-29s (Crossmax 29er) and Rampages about three years ago.  The rims are tubeless, the tires are not.  I had some trouble with the rear, but added more Stans and was fine.  In my infamous crash at Santos, I blew the seal on the front, but was able to get it to hold using 2 CO2's.  It held for an hour and a half and got me back to the parking lot.  I have since set up Maxxis Ignitors and Aspens on those rims.  The Ignitors were a piece of cake and the Aspens were a PITA.  I am convinced one of my Aspens has a larger inside diameter it is so loose.  I also have a set of Flows, and it took all of 20 min. to mount up my Ignitors to them.  I actually rode them around the neighborhood with just air in them.  I do prefer to run tubeless over tubes, but certainly understand those that don't want the hassle.  My only complaint is it makes switching tires for the conditions not worth the effort.  All the tires I tried were regular non-UST and held with 1.5-2 scoops of Stan's.  I use the soapy water and shake like hell method.

yeah good point about switching tires for conditions.. I was running stans when I went to Ellijay and I wanted to switch to a beefier tire but did not due to the hassle of the mess and set-up... But I could see having a back-up wheel set with different tires for that instance, but that costs money that could be spent on other things...

Offline slowfatguy

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 08:17:53 AM »
My experience with having a tire lose it's bead is that the pressure was too low. Especially with a non-UST tire, most of the sidewalls aren't as stiff.
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Offline Tony Buchman

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2010, 08:29:52 AM »
I started this discusion last night so thought I should contribute here.
 
Several months back I upgrade the wheels on my Trance to Mavic Crossmax rims, they happened to be UST. I didn't get them because I was looking to go tubless, I got them because of there reputation for being tough and most important the price. They were 50% off closeouts.
 
Jump forward to this past weekend. I decided it was time for new tires and I said to myself, "self, what the hell lets try tubless", and I bought UST tires. UPS delivered them yesterday and after work I installed them. After abusing my floor pump for about an hour I still couldn't get the bead to set, (Mr Stan's makes it look easy in his how to video) so I posted up in the shout box. I finally got the bead to set by using my air compressor. Set the psi to 25 cause I was afraid of blowing the tire out, 2 blasts and done. switched back to bike pump to finish airing. All that's left to do now is break the bead again and put in the Stan's.
 
All I'm really looking for out of this change is hopfully I'll stop getting flats from those annoying little thorns. 
 
 
 
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Offline Marcel Aguirre

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2010, 08:53:49 AM »
- light non-ust wheels + light non-ust tires = pick carefully, more effort to setup.
- (my choice) light UST wheels (1800g or below) + light non-ust tires = choose proven tire to hold stans well.
- ust wheels + ust tires = again pick tire known to hold stans , a bit heavy and may not be a gain over light wheels + light tires + lights tubes other than pinch flats.
 
In all cases:
- Renew your stans often.  Dont' wait for it to dry.
- Rides when water gets to your tires, wears down stans faster.
- Hot temps in garage dries out stans faster.
- Use soapy water ALL the times to mount tires.
- Use CO2 (i get lucky if I mount on first or 2nd cartrige), or compressor.
- CO2 does not last, once mounted and sealed, renew the CO2 with floor pump.
- Research your choice of tire.  Some non ust tires do not hold stands as well as others do.
- A tire label "TUBELESS" does NOT always mean "UST".  Specially Hutchinson and Specialized "tubeless" tires.  Hutchingson even recommends their own tubeless gue over stans. 
- Most non-UST, non-tubeless tires will NOT be warrantied once you put a drop of stans on it.
 
Good luck... go tubeless, and you will know why.
 
 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 09:05:47 AM by SandPine »

Offline ProEdgeBiker .

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2010, 09:26:00 AM »
UST TIRES W/UST WHEELS for the past 5+yrs more or less. Run them anywhere between 32-38 depending on terrain. I weight 190-200 with gear(weight depends on time of year too :'( ).

Only problem i've ever had was when my sidewall blew out of the WTB Weirwolf 2.1(UST).. Since i run them dry i called WTB, sent it in & after they inspected the tire they sent me a new one.

I now run Maxxis Advantage 2.1 UST and no problems to report thus far.

So I have no complaints about UST on UST, Can't speak about UST to Non UST, Non UST to UST or Getto UST.

Offline Pariah

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 10:12:50 AM »
UST wheels w/UST true tires = no issues for over 2 yrs.  I run my PSi at 26-28 depending on where I ride and I'm 185-195 depending on how much h20 I pack.  I ride very aggressively most of the time and no pinch flats, no burp flats, no flats at all w/ true UST set up w/ stans.  In all truth we're talking maybe an extra 100 grams total...I'll trade that for peace of mind any day....
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Offline Redriderpro

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2010, 11:20:51 AM »
I bought into the hype two years ago.
 
Bought a Stans kit, tried for hours ( including going to a tire store for high volume compressed air) to mount my WTB 2.4 Mutanorapters to Veloclity VXC rims. only to end up frustrated.
 
Sold the Stans kit to one of the other Stan's Kool Aid drinkers, installed fresh tubes, set to 30 pis front an rear and have been happy ever since. ( Rider weight Today is 215, bike has 6" travel and I don't miss many bumps)
 
Experience from another, Tom recently got a set of Mavic UST wheels, with Lareson TT tires which worked great but he said were "heavy". So he has been on a venture to mount various non tubliss tires to these UST rims with Stans.
One of the three different tires he's tried actualluy inflated, but leaked back down.
 
He probably has 2 days of monkeying with this... I'd rather be in the woods on the bike.
 
To each his own.
 
PS. My American Classic wheels, 2.4 tires and tubes probably weigh less than most tubliss setups.
 
Is there really an advantage when on the bike and pedling, or is tubliss like that 9ner thing?
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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2010, 11:29:42 AM »
Is there really an advantage when on the bike and pedling, or is tubliss like that 9ner thing?

Tubeless is a NON-pinch flat thing.

Offline Marcel Aguirre

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2010, 02:43:16 PM »
Is there really an advantage when on the bike and pedling, or is tubliss like that 9ner thing?

Tubeless is a NON-pinch flat thing.
That is one benefit...  You could make case for these as well:
- Certain situations call for lower PSI to gain better traction.  Be careful though.  Too low and you'll be like Luis. :-)
- No torn flats and small sharp rocks.  Rocks no big issue in FL but small tree stumps have punctured my tires and stans filled it up.  It helps to keep your stans fresh though.
- Less friction due to no tube.  Well? Hard to tell but tubeless ride is definately different feel.  I can only describe as a bit more brisky and less sluggish.  aGain, hard to tell until you try it.  (maybe less rolling resistance)
 
Of course, there are cons... just google it to find out.

Offline Redriderpro

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Re: Tubeless
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 03:07:51 PM »
Well being a card caring memeber of the OGSSRC riders ( Old Grumpy,Slow Swamp Riders club)...
 
I think I'll continue to use TUBES along with my 7 year old 8 Speed XTR stuff,Ancient American Classic tube type wheelset and ancient Hope ( Original) Mini brakes.
 
When the wheelset finally goes south, I'll look hard at the New American Classic Tubless XC wheelset (1485 g) that Bill Shook was trying to convince me to buy where I visisted American Classic's facility earlier this week.
 
PS. At 30 psi I have only pinch flatted once in the last 5 years, that was when hitting the steps at the lookout point on
the River at Morris Bridge, just a little two fast.
 
Now if the tubless setup would make as fast as SP then I'd be getting some Stans ASAP!
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